Filed under: Faith | Tags: Afterlife, Bible, Christ, Faith, God, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, Religion, Spiritual
I recently had a conversation that many have had, even if only in their own minds.
The person who I was talking with expressed a sincear desire to want to know if they were, or were not going to be recieved into heaven after they passed. He was wondering what it took exactly to “make the cut” as he put it.
At its core this question is virtually the same as; is there a god? and, why are we here?
To put these questions together in one stream of thought, we get …….. If there is a god, and there is a reason we are here, then what is it, and more importantly what are we supposed to accomplish while here? We can assume that if we accomplish whatever it is that we are supposed to, then we will, as the bible puts it, OVERCOME.
So what is the answer? What is the litmus test or the dividing line that determines our fitness for eternal unity with God and welcomes those famous words, “Well done my good and faithful steward.”?
We find the line is drawn by Jesus himself in Matthew 25:31-46. The story of the sheep and the goats. I would just like to point out a few interesting things about this verse.
1. There is no theological requirement for entrance. If there was then any bible scholar would easily confirm that only certain generations would be allowed due to the vast difference from generation to generation in our theology. Even the very foundations of our faith have been understood differently by different times and tounges.
2. The people who get in did not know that they were getting in. One of the great things about this passage is that it is not a parable. It is a teaching by Jesus. The concept taught here is strung throughout the bible, and that being,,,,,
those who think they are getting in, the “Lord, Lord!” type (Matt. 7:22) do not.
Many will be unpleasantly surprised on that day, when the Lord says to them, “Depart from me, I know you not. For when I was hungry you did not feed me. When I was thirsty you did not give me drink. When I was sick and in prison you did not visit me. When I was a stranger you did not take me in. When I was naked you provided no clothes. ”
I pray that the Lord delays his comming for those who have exchanged the gospel of Jesus for the gospel of Religion. For our righteousness is as fithly rags. (Isaiah 64:6)
Many will say…….”But I have faith, and you have deeds” and I will answer “Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.” (James 2:18)
I asked about “what determins our fitness for eternal unity with God?” I would answer unity on earth. If you do not have unity on earth, then you will not have it after the earth.
Your actions are your theology.
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So even if you don’t believe in “God” or that Jesus was our savior, your actions in serving and uniting with others will still get you into heaven?
Comment by Jessica Gottschalk December 18, 2008 @ 9:08 pmThat is a great question. I would say that what we really need to do is begin to define the “chirstianese” terms that we so commonly through around. Do we really understanding what it is we are saying???
For instance if I said to someone, “Jesus is the only way.” What do I mean?
Comment by chrismccarley December 19, 2008 @ 10:47 pmor like you mentioned what does it really mean to “believe in Jesus”?
How did people get saved before Jesus?
What does it mean “saved”?
If you look at the Old Testament you will see virtually no reference to where we go after we die!
To them salvation WAS NOT- HEAVEN WHEN WE DIE.
To them salvation WAS- DELIVERENCE FROM PHILISTINE FAMINE AND PLAGUE.
Jesus started his ministry in the synagogue in Nazareth, with this reading.-
Luk 4:17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,
Luk 4:19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
NO REFERENCE TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE!!!!!
He was not anointed to preach heaven when you die!!!!!!!!
Read it again to verify this!!!!
When Jesus, and John the Baptist, and the disciples, went forth preaching the gospel, what was it they said?
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is AT HAND.
What does the church say? “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is AFTER YOU DIE”.
It is “dead” easy to promise the uncheckable and unprovable. Why do they change the meaning of the message? Simply because the church no longer has the faith to demonstrate the truth of the invisible Kingdom of God like Jesus and the early christians did.
HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE, WAS A NATURAL FOLLOWER FOR THOSE WHO ARE FOLLOWING GOD IN THIS LIFE.
Notice, when Jesus rebuked Nicodemus,-
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
It was about seeing the hidden kingdom. It requires new birth, from above.
This was not about believing in Jesus’s impending death, that was three and half years away!
All the old testament saints were “Born from above” this was well before the cross.
It is a fact that Jesus paid the price with his blood. It was not and is not a fact that we need to know about this to get to heaven when we die. Otherwise no one from before his time would be there at the last day.
It is about time we took the mythology out of christianity.
NOW I GUESS I WAIT FOR THE CHALLENGES TO THIS HERESY!!!!.
Comment by francisdrakeprivateer February 8, 2009 @ 9:46 pmSorry FDK,
I’m not exactly sure what your getting at. How is a person to be “born from above”???
Please be more precise.
Comment by chrismccarley February 9, 2009 @ 3:53 amHi Chris.
This idea is hard to absorb if you are steeped in traditional views of the christianity. So I’ll try.
Basically a man has to be born again first, before he can ever be saved or become a christian!
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water(first birth) and the Spirit(second birth), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
WHEN WE ARE BORN OF OUR EARTHLY PARENTS, WE ARE BORN OF THE FLESH ONLY. OUR SPIRIT IS A DEAD SPIRIT, AND NOT RELATED IN ANY WAY TO THE FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. (greek=born from above)
Joh 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
Therefore if a man wants to enter into the Kingdom of God, he first must be a child/offspring of God. This means his spirit must be reborn, whilst on earth.
Contrary to general teaching, being born again is not connected with how you believe Christian doctrine, but how you respond to the whisper of the Spirit of God in your heart.
The Holy Spirit touches every heart constantly, drawing men back towards God. Calling upon them to soften their hearts to his voice. This is the touching of people’s hearts via the CONSCIENCE. This has happened since the very beginning.
Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this world or in the world to come.
THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST CRUCIAL SCRIPTURE REGARDING BEING BORN AGAIN. Contrary to christian teaching, whatever we may say about Jesus will be forgiven. However the way we respond to the spirit WHO SPEAKS DEEP INSIDE US, AND WITHOUT CONFUSION, CONVICTING US OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND SIN ETC, is the life or death issue. If we surrender to God inside, we are then open to the gospel or God’s other directions when they may come. We are now BORN FROM ABOVE. God’s seed has been planted, and if nurtured will grow.
Resisting the Spirit’s advances is defined as BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT, this is because there is no excuse, God is personally touching your innermost being, without a human mediator.
Some of those convicted may become christians, then or later. (This was my case, there being maybe ten years between my meeting God alone and hearing the gospel. See my blog) This is true for millions of people.
The human trouble is hardness of heart.–
Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you will hear His voice,
Heb 3:8 do not harden your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness,
Heb 3:15 while it is said, “Today if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”
Heb 4:7 He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” (after so long a time). Even as it is said, “Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts.”
the whole of this Hebrews passage is worth reading to understand unbelief.
Long before Christ, hardness closed off people’s ears.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Before any man can comprehend the things of the spirit, his spirit has to be made alive, ie. born again.
Comment by francisdrakeprivateer February 9, 2009 @ 6:54 pmFrancis,
Great verses. I agree, our Spirit has to be rejuvenated to hear the things of God. Spirit talks to spirit. also, i love how you explained being ‘born again from above’. Few people understand that.
I would disagree with you only really on one point. Some say we are born spiritually dead but physically alive. This has some validity to it, but I wouldn’t completely agree with this assessment. Even the animals have spirits (which are alive), as do we. In fact, a physical body cannot sustain its life without a spirit, it will slowly die.
Also, if we were born spiritually dead, that means that it once had life. Something that is born dead had to once had life or it would cease to be. I think what Chris is talking about is our heritage in God. We our His offspring as Paul talks about in the book of Acts. although many of us have fallen away from our Father and chased after the Father of lies, it is imperative that we know where our ‘first event’ was. It was in God!
Some follow the deeds of the devil, and so they are in a sense ‘his children’ the same way that those that walk by faith our ‘abrahams children’.
But to deny that our heritage first started in God before the foundations of the world is to deny the truth. True, we have all went astray, but that is why Jesus came to REdeem us, REstore us, and REallign us to the head, namely Christ.
Comment by klein February 9, 2009 @ 7:56 pmHi Klein.
Thanks for your comments. I agree we all have a human spirit from birth. I am just saying that at birth our human spirit is dead in terms of its family relationship with God.
A clear example is Satan. He a spirit only (ie. a nobody!) and obviously his spirit is far outside of God’s family.
You said that without a spirit we would
slowly die. I would say immediately die!
Before Adam rejected God’s reign, in favour of using his own knowledge, he would have lived forever. There was no death in the world until that point.
Gen 2:17 but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Why did the promised death not actually happen? In fact it did happen. The correct translation of the last part of the quoted verse has a promise of double death. Something like this, “in dying you shall die” or “you shall die, and die”
It sounds poor English but it is absolutely there.
There were two promised deaths, first spiritual, then physical, for Adams two natures. I believe that Adam was fully functioning as spirit man as he was flesh man, unlike us who struggle spiritually when compared to our flesh.
Now the most significant part of this episode is very easy to completely miss.
“God made coats of skin”.
How would God do that? This was no nice sheepskin jacket!
Comment by francisdrakeprivateer February 9, 2009 @ 9:59 pmJesus (prior to his incarnation) was the manifestation of God of the garden. He had previously promised Adam a double death. Hardly surprising that Adam runs and hides, seeing that he has already fully experienced the first death, his spirit. He rightly expects the second death, his body.
Jesus, the executioner, is now walking in the Garden, looking for Adam, and clearly carrying a knife. On finding them, Jesus rebukes a very terrified Adam and Eve.
Jesus has the knife, but instead of rightly slaughtering Adam and Eve, he turns around and kills a defenceless lamb. He takes the bloody skin and puts it around the two humans.
They survive the judgement of immediate death by the blood of the lamb!
There are so many issues that are brought up here I am not going to address them all. However, before we can even get into the issue of how/when/where we are “saved” or “born from above” we need to answer the question of if or if not we are all childeren of God.
This is one of the far reaching consequenses of how we deal with the identity issue. Sorry to not address head on all of the point you brought up, but it would take a lot of time and we need to start at the begining anyways so. I will work on that and we can go from there!!!
Comment by chrismccarley February 10, 2009 @ 12:50 am[...] http://chrismccarley.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/true-religion/#comment-19 [...]
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